SP or ND2?

[Dan]

I really wish I liked the styling of the ND, it would make the next purchase such an easy one. Nothing to touch an MX5 for value.
To appeal to me it would need to look more like the old RX7/8 (FDs) but that's never going to happen as 'styling' has moved off in a different direction.
I am thinking 'Cayman' a couple of years further down the line but damn they hold their value. Ten-year-old cars (of which there are only a few) are still listed at around half their orig. RRP whilst 5 yo examples are close to original RRP. I have never seen this kind of value retention with any other Make.

The 987.2 Cayman you are referencing (2010>2012) and 997.2 Carrera's (2009>2011) are destined to hold their value better than basically any car of that era!

Firstly there are way fewer out there as they were the facelift model which typically sell less than the original releases and sales were further suppressed given they were released just after the GFC.

And secondly they are the best of both worlds, containing direct injection engines like the following 981/991 (no IMS issues and very reliable) in the older style body which has hydraulic steering rather than electric. Also if you like the auto models they had the PDK rather than tiptronic.

Newer cars I think are usually optimistic owners who don't want to admit they need to take the hit. I purchased my Boxster 4 years old for about 60% of it's original cost from a Porsche dealer while the prices on Car Sales were far higher (I gave up negotiating with the owners when they justify value because they have some stupid interior colour or obscure option).

Yes maintenance is more expensive though nowhere near what people make out.

This is somewhat true, however when something big goes wrong that's when the repair cost differential is huge.
I am speaking from experience, having own 7 porsches over a period of 20 years including a then 4 years old boxster.

Yeh I can't disagree, MX5's are especially cheap to maintain and they can definitely be expensive if things go south.

[Rocky]

Yes, it's interesting, Dan.
Have a look at the offerings on Carsales.com in Manual, 2013 and later Caymans.
Some low-mileage listings but still not justifying the prices. I haven't studied it in detail as it's not important to me at this time, but some of the listings look like they are more than the original price of the car.
I think you are right that there is a lot of self-deluding going on by the owners and my bet is that the serious sellers (as opposed to the speculators) end up selling for a lot less than the asking price - probably after about 6 months without a nibble.
The normal rule-of-thumb with cars is that you can halve the value every 5 years or so but there is no evidence of this at all with Caymans (don't know about other Porsche models).

[smy0003]

Porsche's are pretty legendary for holding value. Other Euro cars are some of the worst of the worst, however.
Lots of value to be had buying a second hand Megane like mine, I paid 30% of the original price after just 4.5 years!

[Mr Morlock]

Makes a lot of sense buying a used Megane at a significant depreciation-wonder why you would buy a new one. Porsche values have not always been so stratosheric- thats occurred particularly in the last 10 years Many of the models are just silly money and conceivably may not hold that high value- only time tells us. Most of us are just not buying vehicles outright for $100K. Many of these cars are originally used by business people who never own the car. Back to Boxster- it probably cost just as much to build and has many great features as the 911 spin offs. I think they are probably the one to buy for someone wanting a more auspicious emblem than an MX-5 and not struck with a Z4. I cannot imagine 911s ever being affordable to the average punter.

[KevGoat]

Just before I bought my SE I came very close to buying a brand new VW GTi. Now looking on Carsales the same year/model GTi with around 30k kms is less than half what I would have paid, a loss of over $25k. My SE by comparison, purchased at that same time instead of the GTi, has dropped maybe $4k. Even allowing for what I've since spent on the SE (that's attained around the same power of the GTi) I'm still well over $8k ahead ....... Now would be the time to buy that GTi ...

Just on the ND or SP question...ND any day.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Nevyn72]

Just before I bought my SE I came very close to buying a brand new VW GTi. Now looking on Carsales the same year/model GTi with around 30k kms is less than half what I would have paid, a loss of over $25k. My SE by comparison, purchased at that same time instead of the GTi, has dropped maybe $4k. Even allowing for what I've since spent on the SE (that's attained around the same power of the GTi) I'm still well over $8k ahead ....... Now would be the time to buy that GTi ...

Just on the ND or SP question...ND any day.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

What price are you using for the SE Kev?

There are only 2 on Carsales, both >$19K and modified, one on Gumtree @ $20K, stock!

Makes me want to consider selling mine if that's what they are going for.....

[rascal]

Asking price doesnt always equal sale price.... (a $35K Na6 springs to mind)

[Nevyn72]

Asking price doesnt always equal sale price.... (a $35K Na6 springs to mind)

True, but asking prices for SE's were in the ~$15K range not long ago.

[KevGoat]

What price are you using for the SE Kev?

There are only 2 on Carsales, both >$19K and modified, one on Gumtree @ $20K, stock!

Makes me want to consider selling mine if that's what they are going for.....

Hmmm...hadn't looked for a while. With those prices I'd be ahead - not including the mods I've spent on. As mentioned it doesn't mean they sell for what's being asked, but I certainly don't mind seeing higher asking prices being advertised!


Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[bigdog]

Having owned an SP for 13 years, and now having a stunning 04 Boxster S I think I can offer some wisdom.
1. There is no comparison between the Porsche and SP on quality. Paint, finish and engineering on the Porsche is in a different league.
2. Performance is superior (although a modified SP would stay with it to 100kmh). Handling is much nicer stock - you need to modify an SP to match a stock Boxster.
3. The noise of a flat 6 P car is pure music and never gets old.
4. Comfort is also another big win for the P car. I would happily drive it all day, but the SP on coilovers was 4 hours max before a break.
5. Maintenance is straight forward, I do my own, but everything on the P car is Torx/special tools, which can be painful. The engine is well hidden and some stuff is painfully tight to get to.
6. Parts cost is a big minus. The low cost parts places are in the US, and exchange rate and shipping is a killer. Local dealers are poisonous too.
7. Reliability is a question mark. The P car is more complex, 986/987 have the IMS issue (mine has not been changed, but I change the oil every 5000km and inspect the old filter for contamination). They also have dual mass flywheels that should be changed with every second clutch. Valve guide tensioners are also a wear point.
8. All that said, my car is worth as much or more than I paid for it two years ago, and will continue to appreciate. My SP lost half its value over the 13 years I owned it. I loved my SP, but I love the Boxster more.

[bigdog]

BTW I can’t comment on the ND, I haven’t dríven one.

[Mr Morlock]

Really interesting post from BigDog - good information for anyone thinking about a Porsche Boxster. It reflects many of the things that I was told when I was talking to Porsche mechanics - a local Porsche mechanic told me the same thing about the process of oil changes. A friend has a Boxster and both are well over 70 and not very agile -an MX-5 for them is just not even a consideration. Maybe Boxster will appreciate in coming years when 911s are just so expensive.

[bruce]

I agree with Bigdog - you can't really compare an MX5 with a Porsche, it's two different quality levels of car.

[Dan]

Maybe Boxster will appreciate in coming years when 911s are just so expensive.

As much as I’ve advocated for the Boxster in here, believing they might appreciate is not realistic.

Look at 911 prices – a 997 S coupe Manual is 75k-100k now and it’s <50k for a 996 Coupe Manual which is what most enthusiasts want. They are still depreciating like all non special/vintage Porsches.

The desirability of the 911 is way higher than the Boxster so I just don’t see the case for a decent appreciation in the Boxster of any generation unless it’s a Spyder.

[CeramicND]

I have an ND1 (2.0) and an NA6 (also owned a NB8A for a short while). Have also dríven NC's and a ND2. As a daily the the ND is a step beyond every model that precedes it. It tends to have more torque lower in the rev range and it's comfort and accessories make it a far more appealing daily driver. Have dríven an ND2 on track and on the road back to back with an ND1. The performance difference of an ND2 on track is subtle, whilst it is quicker, you want feel that difference by the seat if the pants. On the road, the difference is almost imperceptible.

As for my NA6, it's a minimally modified club track toy. I do prefer it's handling on the track to the ND (both have modified suspension) and I love the manual steering rack of the NA but everything else goes to the ND.

Sent from my SM-J530Y using Tapatalk