How do I go quicker on the track?

[Tim_cyc03]

Not really a helpful post as it may never fit in with your plans or you may have already done it.

Buy a car trailer.

[ljs18]

Not really a helpful post as it may never fit in with your plans or you may have already done it.

Buy a car trailer.

Tried that, still slow.

[davekmoore]

I give up!

Mods please delete the thread as only one person answered my actual questions ans it's now gone in a completely different direction.

Got iRacing today by the way. Found an old steam powered Logitech WingMan wheel with two pedals. Attached to old laptop with decent sized screen. $6 for one month's iRacing. Suffice to say I'll be renewing for 2 years at the end of the month.

[madjak]

Not sure if it was mentioned but have you tried gokarts? They are excellent for learning how to throw around and trialing commitment without much risk. Youll find the fastest time is being back from the ragged edge a little with nice smooth but fast lines... pretty much the same as a MX5. Carrying a little extra weight can slow you down lots but if you find some fairly powerful karts it makes less of an impact.

Have fun with iRacing... the other racing sim is Assetto Corsa but it will require a little bit better graphic card.

[Magpie]

What is it worth to follow another MX5 around a track for a lot of laps priceless. The differences in the MX5's were
NB engine - Stock vs modified
Tyres - NT01's (new) vs FZ201's (last legs)
Brakes - Wilwood vs NB8B's
Areo - None vs wing/splitter

Outcome 1:04.6651 vs 1:04.4479. I'm using these times to make myself feel good as in the extra sessions the other MX5 managed a 1:03.8496

Whilst I did not do a PB what I was able to achieve thanks to the other MX5 was consistency in lap times and not do a fast lap without knowing why. The other MX5 was behind me for quite a few laps and whilst I had more power it was obvious in the corners when he caught me that there was a problem. Why was a stock MX5 catching me in the corners, obvious he was faster but why?

So I slotted in behind the other MX5 and followed his lines and it was obvious, he was braking later, had more corner speed than me and slightly different lines. Many a conversation in the pits and I'm still laughing at "you were braking 10m early into turn 2" well at 140kmh you cover 10m rather quickly was my response

Apart from using way to much E85 on the weekend (and on Thu/Fri leaking from both ends) I learnt more about myself as a driver than previous. I set no PB's but what I learnt was priceless.

In the general practice I found oil twice after I was just dropped on the track and was able to control the car with no damage, thanks dirt sprints. In the street sprints a loss of grip at the dipper that made for an entertaining moment. Thanks to another MX5 driver I was able to push past a mental block, simply by asking if he can go fast in a stock MX5 why can't I.

Hand the keys over to a good driver and see what can be done with your car or follow a stock car and be puzzled as to why are they faster.

[davekmoore]

Final attempt to get the thread back on track (no pun intended). Please respect my requests only for responses as requested at the bottom of this post.

Thanks peeps. Many excellent thoughts here. I've especially taken on board all the suggestions about improving myself and will do many of them (already got iRacing, turns out I had a steam driving steering wheel in storage so total spent so far $6 for trial iRacing subscription).

Yes, I want to go better. Many times I wish I'd kept my '90 Eunos as a track car and just kept learning to drive that better while leaving the then lovely SE as my then refined road car. But here I am with just the modified SE that's a lot quicker than I am and it would be more satisfying if I was using it better.

My lack of short term memory rules out autotests. My back does not respond well to karting. I have no interest in riding a bike again.

Are the DTMs bumpy enough to ruin my back again? If not, where can I get to drive one near Mornington, Vic?

The car/driver with 205 R specs is 4 seconds less slow around Winton long than on the present 225 Hankook RS3s, so it seems both of us can use the better grip from grippier tyres. Still relatively slow on the R888s, but had no issues with them being sudden at the limit, perhaps because I'm not getting to their limits everywhere, although my gut feeling was that they behaved just as controllably as road tyres but with more grip in corners and under braking and with less wheelspin under acceleration.

The answer to The Meaning of Life is no longer 42. Inflation in some countries and deflation in others has changed it to 47.432 on average. Changes to the rate of GST ......

The aim of the original post was not to do all or any of the things in the list, but to prioritise them and do them one at a time. Also to check I wasn't wasting my time on just training me if there was a major fault(s) with the car (and yes, David and Brendan, by all means drive the car to see how slow I really am, but please don't get me banned again). Note that I always had training for the nut behind the wheel as the top priority, and that I'm not trying to avoid doing that. The rest of the list was, and still is, to avoid wasting money. There have been enough replies (thank you) telling me to work on me that I realise this is an even higher priority than previously thought.

So future replies will be helpful if:

you rank A-H in my post of Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:37 pm please

OR

if you tell me what driver training including on tracks, skidpans, dirt etc is available in and around Melbourne

OR

Please just don't tell me again to improve myself and leave the car alone, thanks. It's been said, and I agree!

[Ned Loh]

from your list B., D., E all work together (yes all items on your list work together, but some more than others). could be 1 to 6 seconds depending on what you have now. I realise that is not exactly the answer you are looking for.


To disagree a little with some of that has been posted, and whilst I understand you have asked to keep on your list I think you should at least consider some alternate points to the 'group think' here...Whilst I agree to a point about the driver training/track time thing, I do think having a nice handling car is very important to help a normal driver explore the limits without denting drivers confidence or panels, and could be worth spending a little money on to ensure you have a setup that is at least ballpark ok and well balanced. A good setup inspires you to push the limits because you know that you can control it and it won't bite you!

No everyone gets setup right, and you will have to sort the wheat from the chaff here though and be selective about who you listen to. Only a very few people are naturally good at setup out of the box, and most learn it over time, with a good deal of experience, and feedback for proper testing sessions. A talented driver might be able to drive a relatively poor handling car quickly, and if they are relatively inexperienced (only dríven mostly mx5s or sprinted or whatever) they may not even know the car doesn't handle that well. Hint - In my experience the people who can drive and are good at set up do the times without crashing or many spins. The kamakazes do the times, but spin more often and bend the car every few years.

I suppose anywhere you can learn car control is good. motorkhana is ok, but I don't rate it that highly as the speeds are slow and it is a somewhat different skill/bravery set to driving a car on the limit at a high speed track like phillip island. For dirt you could look at http://www.vicclubautocrossseries.com/ although you would have to have a suitable vehicle or pick only the smooth tracks. I like the wet race track suggested earlier, but this is hard to arrange :-)

& I don't really agree that you need a trailer or be prepared to bend it to explore the limits and drive quickly. Track sprints allow you to creep up on the limits very gently.

My final 2 cents - there is nothing wrong with spending money on the car if you wish to do so. If you already have a nice handling package I am not encouraging you to so do, but for many the tinkering and constant evolution of their car is part of the fun. There are cheaper and more expensive things to do on the car as well. If I wasn't reading up about some car related improvement on the internet before bed I don't know what else I would do... ;-)

Hope this helps balance some of the suggestions.

Good luck, and most importantly have fun!

[davekmoore]

Broadford today. The first track day since starting this thread.

The only two differences with the car since setting previous the PB there is it's now running a much more conservative tune, and is on less grippy road tyres instead of the previous R specs.

I guess, with those changes, I'd expect to be a few seconds slower on a short track such as Broadford.

Not so! Actually 2 seconds less slow.

Now I might just have become more determined, but I reckon it's more to do with the $6 investment in iRacing, digging an old force feedback wheel and 2 pedal setup out of the shed, and "practising" for several hours. Because of this I was more able today to better sense when I should be braking (surprisingly, earlier!), turning in (earlier), getting back on the throttle (earlier), and coping better by more appropriate use of the throttle with the understeer and oversteer that are now happening because of higher corner speeds. This was all perhaps easier to do today with the road tyres as they give up grip more progressively than the R888s.

There's plenty more to learn, possibly including braking harder and for less time, and carrying still more speed into corners. Perhaps also need to learn more about setting up the suspension and tyre pressures so the understeer and oversteer become a bit less random, and how to drive to avoid or drive around the understeer and oversteer, especially the oversteer, of which there was a lot - good fun to play but the more there was the slower the lap.

[Dan]

Awesome to hear that iRacing seems to be helping your driving out, I'm sure it will help with improving your setup skills too if you get into that side of the game.

It will be interesting to see how well you go in your next outing at PI since you've got the track in the game.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[The American]

That's awesome. Nice work!

[davekmoore]

Now I've been shown at least one more cost effective way of going less slowly can I please have my 89 Eunos back along with all the $$$$$ I've spent on the SE?

[rascal]

Now I've been shown at least one more cost effective way of going less slowly can I please have my 89 Eunos back along with all the $$$$$ I've spent on the SE?

Nah, You'd just spend too much money on books, to give yourself something to read on the straights to fill in the time...


So your car is effectively less capable than it was before (detuned and less grippy tyres) and you went quicker. (and it was hot yesterday so it wasnt from better track conditions) And didnt cost you a cent on car improvements. Well done.

I'd leave your car alone now and just practice on iRacing and then see how far you can drop your lap times out on the track in real life.
Also its waaaay more satisfying knowing you have gone quicker because of improving your own driving skills rather than a quicker car under you..

[1600Dave]

I did a day of training with Trackschool last week (Up at Wakefield Park, but I'm sure someone can chime in with the mexican equivalent) - three "students" with 2 instructors for the day.

Was a little difficult to quantify lap time improvement as my MX5 broke before we really got started (overheating) and I ended up using the school's two MX5's instead. The only accurate figure I have was a two second improvement over a three sessions, but after that I ended up in a different car which rendered further lap time comparisons useless.

I will readily admit that I was humbled to realise how much I had to learn after messing around in track days / hillclimbs / motorkhanas / regularity since 2006. Some of what I learnt was new stuff, but most was just fixing "bad habits" I had gotten into, or not realised I was doing things wrong.

One example - it was pointed out that I roll off the throttle too gently, particularly at the end of the main straight. Not get off the throttle completely, just back off a touch as I prepared for the upcoming corner. So, next time around I was instructed to keep my foot flat, then brake harder. I discovered that keeping the foot flat to the floor just a little longer meant I was going a touch faster by the time I got to my usual braking point, resulting in a little, ummm, difficulty in getting around said corner.....

I would anticipate at least a 2 second or more improvement next time I get my car on the track, and that is at Wakefield Park which is only a short-ish 1:20 lap time.

Highly recommend something like this.

[beavis]

2 seconds faster thanks to iRacing and a force feedback wheel

I'm pleased to hear. I hope I contributed to that in some way.

[davekmoore]

Yes, thanks.