Track Day Harness Options... help!

sailaholic · Postby **sailaholic** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:39 am

While I agree in pricipal there are some factors being overlooked.

A) a standard laps ash on a sprint (mine anyway) ends up going over the top of the inside bolster. To try and run it inside ends up with the buckle half in half out of the seat which feels neither effective or comfortable. I need either significantly shorter strap between the tunnel and the buckle receiver to keep it outside the seat.

This means it can not pull tight across the hips as design. Based on this I would prefer to be using a harness.

b) many people start in non speed events as mentioned and want the harness for more security in the seat.

C) there has been a lot of big crashes before hans but with harness and people didn't magically die. Statistically you are more likely to die without a hans but it's nowhere near a certainty.

D) "if you don't have cash for all the safety gear don't go racing" what a load of rubbish for club level track events. Door to door is different. But how many people have got the cash to stump up for all the changes in one hit. That's like saying if you can't afford a full snell helmet you shouldn't be allowed on the track. Think about how many people at club days THAT would count out.

Horses for courses. Look at the intended use, look at the risk, do a risk assessment, try it out and amend your personal risk assessment and safety gear as required.

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MattR · Postby **MattR** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:00 am

As above...

But for your shoulders sake and anyone who may drive the car. If there is any chance that the harness will be used without a HANS device use a 3" shoulder strap, your collar bones will thank you in any stop.

I have been unfortunate enough to have had 3 reasonably big crashes in 25 years of racing, two cars written off. The first I hit a concrete wall at the top of bitupave hill at Amaroo park when a suspension component broke, I turned 90 degrees left and I hit at an estimated 120mph. Second at Oran park, Another car and I had a coming together when he spun in front of me and I zigged when I should have zagged, ripped the right rear wheel and hub off and snapped the driveshaft like a carrot, and also ripped the fuel tank out of the car. Third big one at lakeside, wrote the car off when I hit the wall coming onto the straight, shorterning one corner by a foot and moving the left A pillar back about 4mm. In all three I received bruising to the shoulders, the first one left me looking like I took a kicking from a street gang and I spent 3 days in bed, last one left my shoulder sore with some tissue damage. If I was using a 2 inch harness in the first one I would have had a lot more tissue damage and possibly broken collar bones, and the same for the third hit where a photo shows me nearly headbutting the front cross bar of the cage with the seat belt stretch. Afetr all three big hits the belts were also cut and hung up on the wall as a reminder.

And please use a 5/6 point harness. $ point harness have a habit of creeping up when you tighten the shoulder straps and the lap part not sitting where it should. The crotch strap does two jobs, firstly helps locate the lap belts across the bony part of the hips, not the abdomen. In an sudden stop the belt will work properly when positioned on your hip bones, if its "up in ya guts" it will do some damage. Secondly, in frontal impact the crotch strap will stop you trying to slide under the harness.

If you are going to get the gear, get the best you can afford and don't skimp.

DJ · Postby DJ » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:25 am

Thanks for all the advice.

I will do some further research over the weekend, however I think I will end up going with a 6 point harness with a hans device and do it properly from the start.

I will do some research on the forum, but is the harness relatively straight forward to install? I have heard some points need to be braced by an anchor plate or something as the mounting point on the car is not thick enough? Also the harness needs to be installed using the right angles for it to be effective.

Cheers!

sailaholic · Postby **sailaholic** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:27 am

Most manufacturers will have detailed fitting instructions on their website or with the equipment.

The scroth harness Plohl linked is superb and super functional if you ever want to have two different drivers use the car.

I bought plohls old velo as it suited my budget. When I go hans or need to change belts though I'd be going the scroth enduro .

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Trackphotos · Postby **Trackphotos** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:49 am

You'll need to have sandwich plates with eyebolts welded/riveted in to connect the belts to. 2 in the floor either under the seat or just in front of it, depending on what angle the manufacturer says is required. May also need one inside the trans tunnel for the left lap belt. If you've got a roll bar already, most of them have threads cut to screw the eyebolts straight in. The right side lap belt is connected to an eyebolt that replaces the normal bolt holding the bottom of the standard 3 point belt. Doesn't affect the 3 point at all.

The sandwich plates are necessary to distribute the load over a few square inches on impact. An eye bolt with a nut on the other side could just pull straight through the floor.

mazmad · Postby **mazmad** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:27 pm

Some good info here. If you google scroth they used to have a great manual for correct installation of harness, applicable to most makes of harness. Correct angles of harness lines, anchor points, etc.

Not meaning to be an evangelist, but check these vids out.

https://youtu.be/g40YatgE_CE

https://youtu.be/uEsTtFHUTg4

And the ‘I am only doing speed events’ thing is b.s. The biggest accidents I have seen were at track days. Two drivers died in the not too distant past in a practice session. To think bad s!!t only happens racing is, to repeat, b.s.

manga_blue · Postby **manga_blue** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:19 pm

NA8s already have threaded reinforced bolt holes for the lap belts - the inside one is hiding under the carpet at the base of the tunnel behind the seat and the outside one uses the existing lap/sash bolt hole on the side rail. NBs don't have the one on the tunnel.

BD and Torque box rollbars have the mountings for the shoulder straps built in.

You'll need to drill through the floor and install backing plates for the two crotch straps.

Schroth has always been good for providing fitting instructions. https://www.schrothracing.com/sdocs/200 ... ctions.pdf

Trackphotos · Postby **Trackphotos** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:08 pm

sailaholic wrote:..a standard laps ash on a sprint (mine anyway) ends up going over the top of the inside bolster. To try and run it inside ends up with the buckle half in half out of the seat which feels neither effective or comfortable. I need either significantly shorter strap between the tunnel and the buckle receiver to keep it outside the seat.

In my NB I had the rail-mounted belt buckle cut off, and a new buckle attached to the trans tunnel itself. It sits low enough for the entire buckle to be between the trans tunnel and the seat, no different to factory. I guess since my buckle was added to the trans tunnel specifically to allow for the Sprint V to work with it, it may be mounted closer to the floor to make it sit in a better position than the standard location in an NA. I hadn't realised it was a problem without moving the buckle.

On all other points, absolutely. As you said, horses for courses. I wasn't willing to buy all the gear for my first track day, just the basics. After a single sprint day at Lakeside, I had a rollbar put in. Very soon after, I got a new helmet, HANS and harness all at the same time. It would cripple every track who required all of that gear at once.

Ben MX5 · Postby **Ben MX5** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:43 pm

Hi there,

Trackphotos and greenmachine, I don't really remember how I came to have a 4 point rather than 5/6 point harness. I had an idea that the crotch strap was to stop you sliding under the other belts and that's not such an issue in our cars as opposed to open wheelers with a more reclined seating position. It seems I've got it wrong and that I should add the crotch strap in?

Trackphotos · Postby **Trackphotos** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:00 pm

Ben MX5 wrote:Hi there,

Trackphotos and greenmachine, I don't really remember how I came to have a 4 point rather than 5/6 point harness. I had an idea that the crotch strap was to stop you sliding under the other belts and that's not such an issue in our cars as opposed to open wheelers with a more reclined seating position. It seems I've got it wrong and that I should add the crotch strap in?

Absolutely. If your buckle can accommodate another one or two points, it would be a very good idea. Most brands do sell individual belts, so that's easy enough. You'd just need to get another anchor or two put in the floor to connect it to. If your buckle doesn't allow for any more belts, you'd have to buy a new harness entirely, which of course could be costly. I would say it's worth the cost though, especially since you run at one of the fastest tracks in the country.

YanMa YatTai · Postby **YanMa YatTai** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:50 am

I originally opted for 4 points. Drove down the street to test out the harness. Very next day I went and bought the crotch straps.
No crotch strap and the belts slip upwards. Have a crash and likely will crush your guts. Would not be pretty in a big one.

Ned Loh · Postby **Ned Loh** » Fri May 01, 2015 12:20 pm

Trackphotos wrote:
Ben MX5 wrote:..I spoke to Brett at revolution race gear, asked him what he recommended, and left with a Shroth 3" 4 point harness, Bell R1 helmet and a HANS device...

That's interesting. Would I be right in thinking that he weighed the extra cost of a 5/6 point harness against the 4 point and determined that for a low-level club day sprints-only kind of situation, 4 points would do? Because I have never, ever heard anybody recommend a 4 point harness over a 5/6. The only reason I could imagine to choose a 4 point would be price.

Can you (or anyone) please do me a favour and take a photo of under the car for me so I can see where you mounted the captive nut/plates for the crotch strap?

Doesn't look to be much room due to the shape of the floor and fuel lines.

Ned Loh · Postby **Ned Loh** » Wed May 27, 2015 4:20 pm

Ned Loh wrote:Can you (or anyone) please do me a favour and take a photo of under the car for me so I can see where you mounted the captive nut/plates for the crotch strap?

Doesn't look to be much room due to the shape of the floor and fuel lines.

So plenty of people saying to use a crotch strap but nobody can post a pic of mounting???

gsu003 · Postby **gsu003** » Wed May 27, 2015 4:45 pm

Hi Ned,
Tomorrow I will be jacking the car up to change wheels for Wakefield this weekend so I can take some pic's for you.
If you send me an email it will be easier than posting pic's on the website.
Regards, Greg.
I will send pm with email address

SnaveSnavely · Postby **SnaveSnavely** » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:13 pm

Thought I would bump this thread rather than start a new one...
I have searched with no luck - for people keeping the factory 3 point belt and installing a harness are you using eyebolts in the factory lower mounting points (on both sides in an NA6) to hold both the factory belt and buckle and the harness lap belts? I'm trying to work out if this is still road legal? I bought a 6 point harness from Revolution Racegear which i'm installing and was supplied enough spreader plates to make new holes for the harness but I would have through the factory points are the simplest and strongest?
Thanks