Increasing rear brake bias without a bias controller?

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RS2000
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Re: Increasing rear brake bias without a bias controller?

Postby RS2000 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:18 pm

rossint wrote:The Wilwood valve actually adjusts the knee point based on the pressure it sees rather than just restricts flow through the valve across the board, It is a proportioning valve.


I'm sorry but not correct. You have master cylinder pressure upstream going into the w/w valve, & the knob sets the pressure at which the downstream pressure will not rise above. In theory it doesn't have a proper knee point, just a manually adjustable, pressure setting.
When braking, the pressure downstream will be the same as upstream, up to the setting of the valve. Further heavier braking past this pressure will not increase pressure coming out of the valve to the brakes.

A proportional valve adjusts the pressure in the rear brakes according to the pressure in the m/c. The manufacturers design it to give the best f/r bias according to the cars 'setup' & general driving. The rear pressure is always increasing as the front pressure increases, just at different rates above & below the knee point.

The w/w valve is placed in the rear line, & is adjusted to give a maximum downstream pressure that the rear brakes see. The w/w is not allowed on a road registered car. Two reasons would be:
- people can back the knob off too far, maybe reducing the rear pressure too much & giving inadequate rear braking, OR
- screw the knob right in, giving the rears full m/c pressure, which could cause the rears to lock & the car to swap ends

RS2000
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Re: Increasing rear brake bias without a bias controller?

Postby RS2000 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:06 am

Well, it looks like I have egg on my face!

I contacted Willwood by email twice a couple of years ago, asking for the knee points & ratio or slope after that point, & they never replied. So, with having some, but limited hydraulics experience, I assumed that it wasn't a prop valve. Maybe they just didn't want to tell me!

But, I've got this to work https://wilhelmraceworks.com/blog/brake-proportioning-valve which was posted by rossint.

It seems this guy has shown that the reduced downstream pressure does increase as the input pressure increases. I've no reason to doubt him, so I stand corrected. My apologies.

I don't know that this helps SKYHI though.

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rossint
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Re: Increasing rear brake bias without a bias controller?

Postby rossint » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:36 am

RS2000 wrote:Well, it looks like I have egg on my face!


Don’t worry, all your other contributions have been spot on :lol:

RS2000
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Re: Increasing rear brake bias without a bias controller?

Postby RS2000 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:56 pm

I doubt that, but cheers anyway rossint!

Found this AP racing valve which shows a very similar graph https://www.apracing.com/product_details/race_car/actuation_products/proportioning_valves/screw_type_prop_valve/cp3550-14.aspx

nd55
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Re: Increasing rear brake bias without a bias controller?

Postby nd55 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:06 pm

EBC Green Stuff brake pads have a coefficient of friction of 0.55, which is a little higher than most.

Installed in the rear only, it seems like a simple way of moving brake bias backwards.

Nick.


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