Claiming Racing

[Nuddy]

I've heard of this concept in sailboat racing
StillIC wrote:
"Well, I should find the thread where I mentioned this concept. But in short i would like to see a dollar value based motorsport class system.

Problem (IMHO): There are hundreds of motorsports classes in Australia, and in nearly all cases in all classes the biggest cheque book wins. We can't all afford to be competitive when this is the case, thus providing a certain level of disillusion for many competitors and an uneven playing field.

Solution I would like to see trialed: A system where the classes are based on the owner's applied value of the vehicle. So, there might be a $5000 class, a $10k, a $20k or whatever breakdown is deemed about right.

How would that work I hear you ask. Couldn't I just buy a Lotus Exige and enter it in the $10,000 class? Yes you could. And at the end of the first event your fellow competitors have the option of buying your car for $10,000 and if you don't sell it you are out of running for the competition. So as a competitor you would need to enter your car in a class where you are willing to sell it at the value of the class you are in. Spend more on your car to make it faster, and risk losing it to a fellow competitor. Of course, if they race it again then you have the chance of buying it back (if you still want it after they may have de-modified it). No others rules to be broken, chances for cheating are slim if any, and scrutineering is just for safety.

I don't propose this as a replacement for all existing classes, more as a parallel system until it proved popular enough to stand alone, if ever. But it needs a critical mass to start off with, and probably at a lowish value, maybe $5000."

Great idea for levelling the playing field. The way I heard it you contract to sell if required so the driver who enters the Lotus must sell if he/she wins the first event and by the end of the season he has bought everybody a car and the results go to the most skilled driver.
But seriously it would work but I think $10k in today's money. My NB cost me $7k and I've spent, I guess close to $3k on it.
A person with the skills and inclination could maybe get a real cheap NA and do the work on it and be well under 10k outlaid + labour and be well rewarded for the work.
I'd be happy to run in a $10k class. Guess it would rule out NCs and NDs. Maybe a $20k class for NCs and a $35k class for NDs.
Perhaps start with a $10k subclass within MX-5 cup or even just at club track days?

[forcedfive]

I see where you are coming from Nuddy but not all race classes are that focussed on big budgets and winning but rather good spirited racing and enjoyment. The MX5 Cup is time based and the diver leading the championship after two rounds runs in either class C or D. If he keeps up these performances he is likely to win the championship. Last year close to stock car running class D & C finished on equal point with the fastest, most powerful and probably the most expensive car in the field. The faster class A car won on a countback which ended up being qualifying positions through out the season.

Personally I run a quick car which is by virtue of it being what it was when I started racing last year (if I was building or buying a car for the MX5 Cup it would most likely be a naturally aspirated car). Since then I have just been trying to set the car up better and make it reliable. It is 18 years old and has been turbocharged for 17 of those years. It is now a race car as I was not using it as it deserved and now it is being enjoyed again. It is not the most expensive Cup car or the most powerful but I believe it is well set up. The biggest improvement has been the seat time allowing me to be a better driver. Even in a class with similar value cars I would not want to swap my car for another competitors even if they were beating me. Swapping cars also disadvantages those who have the ability to set a car up well on a limited budget. Perform to well and you either have to let it go and give it to someone who may not have that ability or leave the series.

Keep on those sprints and track days and see you in the MX5 Cup soon. It is a great place to race regardless of where in the field you run.

[Nuddy]

I really like the way it is done in MX-5 cup. Lap time based classes are ideal. I think my NB8A will be close to the cheapest and least powerful car when I get there.
Stock 1998 engine, suspension and wheels. Torsen V2 and 4.3:1 on road tyres I got down to 1:23 on Sunday - my first drive on WP. I now have some second hand R-Specs and may borrow some newer shocks (mine have done 160,000km). Concentrating on seat time and hoping to get down to 1:16 and into Cup racing asap.

[Magpie]

Have a look at the new QLD MX5 car club's points scoring format. Very difficult to 'tank' and most importantly encourages participation in non club events!

[forcedfive]

I will check that out Magpie. The two clubs need tom communicate when doing the 2018 schedule as I am sure there are some from both side of the border that would like to have some cross participation. The plan is for NSW to do a Nationals type event in 2018 as they did a couple of years ago with a great field.

See you at the hillclimb on Sunday Nuddy. Come and say hello, I am in the black and blue NB8A.

[rossint]

Supermiata in the US has done a pretty good job of creating a spec series with the emphasis on low cost and a level playing field. The fast guys share data, both car setup and driving and help coach the slower guys. They run two short races with the second one being reverse grid and encourage aggressive defending from the slow guys who are now out front.
I agree there seems to be to many classes with not much relavence at events, it's not uncommon in SA to have one or two cars in a class.

[zossy1]

Where you end up in racing is largely dependant on how serious you are.

Time based racing suits people who care not for winning against similar competition. It's easy to win in the 1:09-1:11 class if your car is capable of 1:05s and you have a predictive lap timer. On the other hand, if you want to win the Winton/Wakefield 300 outright, nowadays you need a Ginetta or a supercharged Lotus. It's still chequebook racing.

Time based racing is not for all. That's one reason why the Blue Rocket is now in pieces.

The dilution of racing classes is a real problem, but one that has been caused by competitors as much as the racing bodies and clubs. There is no easy fix.

I am a huge believer in a Spec MX5 class, having observed Spec Miata when I lived in the states. Yes - to win the nationals in Spec Miata, you need to be a great driver in a great (ie expensive) car. Spec rules don't stop the spending. But I have seen a well dríven $12k car win state and regional titles. I have also seen nationals-level spec cars for sale for less than $20k at seasons end.

The problem is pulling a core group of 12-15 dedicated racers together to get it going, and doing so in the face of committed and established classes at various levels like APRA, Excels, the 86 series, etc.. Once it is up and running, I'm confident the quality of racing would attract other competitors in time.

[Todd77]

I see where you are coming from Nuddy but not all race classes are that focussed on big budgets and winning but rather good spirited racing and enjoyment. The MX5 Cup is time based and the diver leading the championship after two rounds runs in either class C or D. If he keeps up these performances he is likely to win the championship. Last year close to stock car running class D & C finished on equal point with the fastest, most powerful and probably the most expensive car in the field. The faster class A car won on a countback which ended up being qualifying positions through out the season.

Personally I run a quick car which is by virtue of it being what it was when I started racing last year (if I was building or buying a car for the MX5 Cup it would most likely be a naturally aspirated car). Since then I have just been trying to set the car up better and make it reliable. It is 18 years old and has been turbocharged for 17 of those years. It is now a race car as I was not using it as it deserved and now it is being enjoyed again. It is not the most expensive Cup car or the most powerful but I believe it is well set up. The biggest improvement has been the seat time allowing me to be a better driver. Even in a class with similar value cars I would not want to swap my car for another competitors even if they were beating me. Swapping cars also disadvantages those who have the ability to set a car up well on a limited budget. Perform to well and you either have to let it go and give it to someone who may not have that ability or leave the series.

Keep on those sprints and track days and see you in the MX5 Cup soon. It is a great place to race regardless of where in the field you run.

Spot on Verne, well said

[Todd77]

On the other hand, if you want to win the Winton/Wakefield 300 outright, nowadays you need a Ginetta or a supercharged Lotus. It's still chequebook racing.

Yes the big dollar boys have won the last few, but by no means will the checkbook keep winning. There a a lot of budget racers like myself, that chip away at there cars piece by piece, fault by fault, failure by failure working their way upto being a quick reliable car that do go toe to toe with the big boys. I qualified 2nd quickest in qualifying and 3rd in top 10 shootout a couple years ago in Wakefield 300. I had a wheel bearing fault and a fuel pump failure which killed my chances, but it does give me hope and drive that One day, that trophy will be mine.

Now I know there is a lot of people who would put my car in the big dollar class.... I'm by no means a big dollar racer, I do everything on my car myself, I can't afford new tyres, I mostly run secondhand slicks, the year I qualified second I sold my car trailer to pay for a new set of kuhmo slicks. For me it's half the drive to win to see my hard work beat the big boys, it's half the thrill!

And to recap on what Verne said, I wouldn't swap my car for the world!! Also am a firm believer that it's the driver in all our cars have a big part on how they perform.