MX5CQ Trackday QR Monday 11/4/16

[Vat]

Yeah, bit disappointing we couldn't muster up the support. Thanks to Adam for the effort to make it happen.

I'm not a fan of "only lakeside" and if the club is destined to do only that, then I'm sure other people might be less motivated to attend which means the viablity of that goes into question and so on... and on....

Agree - whilst a great, rewarding track, it's a daunting place for newbies, and also limits the club geographically, as Lakeside is a bit of a PITA if you're south of the river (the peak hour drive home sucks the big one).

Appreciate it's the reverse story for those on the north.

[Magpie]

I'm not a fan of "only lakeside" and if the club is destined to do only that, then I'm sure other people might be less motivated to attend

This hurts but I agree

I agree that Adam has done a brilliant job of running the events - no question.

Again agreed

Is the cost of the track hire getting higher such that we simply need to raise the entry fee?

Just answered by TrackPhotos.

Is the solution to drop QR from the calendar as it appears to be suffering from lack of attendance. This year the number of events at QR was reduced from 3 to 2. This year it looks like it may be none... This again reinforces the lack of interest in QR and why Lakeside is preferred by the club.

Or divide the cost of hire by say 25, have people pay in advance (same as what Adam had for QR) and if there are more than 25 refund people the difference? Further only allow pre-paid entrants.

Or allow the club to run events with another club. This may not be possible because of the club constitution or CAMS affiliation.

Or run with another event at QR. For example at Street Sprints the 86 and HSV club are running and on 13/04 the Mid Week Sprints have the QUT club running as well, shame we did not propose this date.

Or move to another club that has regular track days?

[gslender]

The entry fee has already been raised Grant, it jumped $15pp this year. QR had been gradually increasing the cost my small amounts for a few years, but the club has resisted increasing the end cost for as long as they can. Adam has said the breakeven point is 40 entries, at $145pp that's $5800. Assuming 100% of that money goes to QR and only the excess would go to the club, that put us at only $3480 for this round from 24 entries, still over $2300 short.

I don't think it is as clear cut as that....

In the past, we've had 30 or so people show up at Lakeside or QR and still proceeded. There is also no way you would have had 30 at the 2 week out mark either..... so probably looked fairly glib when making a prediction for the day, but yet it proceeded (not sure if it made a profit or not) and maybe this information needs to be shared so people know what to expect (in either ensuring they regularly attend so it can continue) or have higher fees that we accept to ensure it survives.

I'm not aware of the costs (that QR require) vs club contribution vs loss or profit for each event, but it seems if you can get to 24 paid early bird attendees and yet still decide to cancel seems disappointing, but alas it is what it is and I'll just have to accept that...

[Magpie]

G Lakeside normally ends up being a full day hence more than likely to be well attended. Further I'm not aware of any Lakeside event not proceeding due to lack of numbers.

Looking at Natsoft.
May 2015 34 attendees (30 MX5's), by the end of the day 11 MX5's did the National
May 2014 35 attendees (27 MX5's), by the end of the day 15 MX5's did the National

Therefore Adam's decision to not proceed is financially sound for the club, based on previous information. Adam would have better information than me.

However, it would have been nice to ask if the people who paid in advance were willing to pay a little extra for more track time. That is I would have paid up to an extra $50 if asked, only on the condition that it be made exclusive to the people who paid upfront. A half day at QR with 25 cars would have given a lot of track time!

[gslender]

There is always more attending last minute too. So 35 wouldn't have been known 2 weeks out....


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[The American]

There is always more attending last minute too. So 35 wouldn't have been known 2 weeks out....

Why not?

[gslender]

There is always more attending last minute too. So 35 wouldn't have been known 2 weeks out....

Why not?

Well, because you don't have to pay until up on the day if you won't wish to... so someone technically can arrive on the day, and pay the full fee. Not all that likely I would guess, but people can and have (I have).

[Magpie]

Adam would be best placed to answer your question.

At a guess Lakeside events are supported very early hence predicting numbers is easy. Whereas QR events only just get by, further QR may require events to be confirmed or a cancellation fee will apply (unknown).

Adam made it very clear what was required. Further his email also stated that everybody who said they would pay paid so pretty clear. I'm just as disappointed as the 23 others who paid, but club cannot make a loss. However I would now expect that Lakeside is kept to its half day format and no full days appear. Then again the events are controlled by the club not by forum consensus.

If I have to take time off work to attend I prefer QR or Morgan Park. Due to work I have not been able to take advantage of the full days at Lakeside. Then again I rarely go to Lakeside due to distance (almost 90km and across Brisbane), family (they like to attend) and work. If I go to Lakeside and it is a week day I normally go to work and have my other half tow the MX5, pick me up from work then off to Lakeside. For info Morgan Park is 110km away whereas QR is 13km

[The American]

Sorry Grant, I misunderstood your post. Makes sense to me now.

It's a shame to have to cancel events for lack of attendance.

[zero00]

Morgan Park is almost a 480km round trip for me, QR is 250km and Lakeside is 75km

The logistics of getting a car back from the first two would be a nightmare for me should any type of problem arise

IMHO I believe Morgan Park and QR were too close for quite a few that might have to budget for each event - Morgan Park was an experience for many of those that attended for the first time - will they go back?

If you check with Adam, the way the entry fee/timeframe are now set means the majority pay 2 weeks or more before the event in difference to when it was only a few dollars more expensive to actually pay on the day

[Magpie]

Each track has pros and cons. To be honest I did not consider the logistics of getting a car home if there was an issue as I normally trailer mine.

If I had to choose I would drop QR in favour of Morgan Park. However then you would have the extra cost of accommodation.

[adidistyle]

Thanks for the feedback and comments. I will address a few of these items.

To recap, I had initially cancelled our booking completely, but couldn't quite let it go. The same day I tentatively booked the 11/4, and called for paid entries that night. I allowed 8 days to gather entries, to see if we could raise sufficient numbers.
I received 25 fully paid entries.
No promises or EOIs.
Significantly, I also received 18 declines (11 from regulars)

Cost
Ross, your calcs were about right...
QR hire: $5510 (Track, staff, timing, medic, insurance)
Paid entries: $3495 (Including 2x 2nd drivers)
Shortfall: $2015
We pay the track hire regardless of attendance numbers. In this instance QR showed no interest in reducing our risk.
I aim to break even each calendar year, including being able to subsidise at least one event to be a full day event, and pay for trophies. This requires making about $250 profit on preceding events. We lost $740 on TD1, and broke dead-even on TD2. That is, $740 down so far this year (paid for by November 2015 at Lakeside)

Attendance (Average)
QR: 40ppl (Over the past 9 events)
LS: 43ppl (Over last 15 events. 41ppl excluding last November)
MP: 23ppl (one event)
Overall: 40ppl per event

QR vs Lakeside
The numbers indicate that any Lakeside bias is just perception. There appears to be a slight preference for Lakeside (41 vs 40), but this is skewed by occasional full days being offered. Lakeside is unquestionably closer to the greater population, and presents the possibility of only taking 1/2 day off work. It better suits standard MX5s, but QR is probably a better novice's circuit. QR is a LONG way away if you breakdown. I know...
I am fully in favour of eventing at QR and Lakeside. The MQ5CQ motorsport is already quite 1-dimensional, which is why I latched on to the Morgan Park opportunity. Any reduction in variety will not be helpful.

Number of late entries
Since I have begun emailling earlybird reminders, late entries have almost completely stopped, now comprising less than 5% of entries. People are definitely motivated by the discount, and will act if reminded. I am fairly confident very few additional entries would have been received, considering the number of declines received.

Overall
I feel that the event has been defeated mainly by time. It was Easter. Some were having difficulties preparing cars in time. It was too short notice for people to change existing plans, or to have a lazy $145 available. Budgets might also be an issue, as I have added two events to the calendar. Maybe that is too much. There is possibly a QR "meh" factor at work too.

Looking forward,
June 6 is ON at Lakeside
July 9th is ON at Morgan Park
I have to reschedule the QR July day into August, if possible.
September 12 is ON at Lakeside
November 14 is ON at Lakeside

[MXO005]

Well done Adam.
You can't get more transparent than that.

Your persistence with the QR April day is greatly appreciated. To get that many declines, whilst disappointing to those of us wanting to go, shows that you made the right decision but also that your position is being treated with respect by many.

Bit of a shock that TD1 made a loss.

Great news that the next Morgan Park event is confirmed. It would be interesting to get feedback of how the other clubs thought the last day went and whether the plan is to stay predominantly segregated in groups by club or if there is a feeling of wanting to mix things up.
I'll be trying to nudge myself a few places forward from the back of the pack.

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[Magpie]

Thanks Adam.

[MXO005]

Regarding the TD1 loss compared to last November's success, maybe someone can put together some kind of expected/actual laps per $ analysis.
I don't know if a full day costs exactly double a half day but maybe there is an opportunity to offer both options? Or maybe that would be a logistical nightmare?

From my very few track days there seems to be a steady decline of participants throughout the afternoon. Not just those that can't continue but some who've maybe achieved all the want or seen the conditions change and can't see further improvement in times coming.
For those that stick it out there seem to be more frequent and more open laps available.
Maybe this gives that opportunity of a two tier system?

For me personally, taking a half day off work just doesn't make any sense in reality. I might as well just have the whole day off anyway. So I'd always be keen to at least see the option of a full day cost. Whether my budget could cover it every time is another question.

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