NC 2.5L engine swap (Aus Spec)

Technical Guides primarily to do with the NC series

Moderators: timk, Stu, zombie, Andrew, -alex, miata

Adrianvh
Driver
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:27 pm

NC 2.5L engine swap (Aus Spec)

Postby Adrianvh » Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:20 am

:NC: :DIY:
Here is a guide to swapping out the 2.0 and replacing it with a 2.5L engine.
First some handy links for reading.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=522719
A good guide to swapping the engines, although its a little brief
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=563578&highlight=crank+pulley
This one corrects some info in the above post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_L_engine
A brief guide to Mazda "L" series engines
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=536603&highlight=crank+pulley
Another one I found handy for reference
http://www.good-win-racing.com/manuals/Cosworth-2005-2008-MX-5-Installation-Instructions-4MAR2010_AD.pdf
Better to save the Good-Win SC guide, as you will need it
Read all of that?........ great.
Now you understand its not that hard. The biggest hurdle for me was confidence.

You will need the following parts well before you start.
6PK2305 or 6PK2310 belt, ARP bolt 261-2501 for crank pulley. Degreaser, oil safe silicon,
large cable ties and coolant hose lube. Also a bag of zip-lock lunch bags so you can label and store bolts etc.
Ball point pen, sharpie marker and utility knife blades. Wax and grease remover and rags.
ImageDSC_2086 by adrianvh

Tuning software and a base map. I use and recommend EcuTek via Dynotronics.
New oil filter

Permatex Plastic Weld epoxy
Image51hglO+4awL._SY355_ by adrianvh

Mazda Diamond friction washer
ImageDSC_2130 by adrianvh

Massive speed Balance shaft delete kit
Imagefd94c5bc-f495-46d0-a9ac-00837003ef06-800 by adrianvh

Massive speed timing kit
Image093a0ef3-eaa6-4f35-a151-d48dd3d113d4-800 by adrianvh

Flywheel lock
ImageDSC_2126 by adrianvh
(The last two are available on loan from me)

You will want your 2.5L motor a few days before you swap the engines.
ImageDSC_2051 by adrianvh

Remove the PCV cover and degrease the inside of it so you can alter it. It wont clear the 2.0 intake manifold.Remove the valve connector and with a hack saw or dremmel tool, trim the PCV case as shown. Clean it up the edges & degrease.
ImageDSC_2053 by adrianvh
ImageDSC_2056 by adrianvh
ImageDSC_2057 by adrianvh

Next get a shopping bag (polyethylene) and compact it into the back of the cut area to make a barrier.
ImageDSC_2060 by adrianvh

Mix the Plastic Weld epoxy and apply it to the back, make sure it sits proud so you can push the epoxy through the hole and get it to spread out on the inside and create a seal.
Trim off any excess and wait for it to set.
ImageDSC_2061 by adrianvh
ImageDSC_2062 by adrianvh
ImageDSC_2064 by adrianvh

Remove the oil pan and intake manifolds. These wont be re-used.
Note some 2.5L blocks have bolts on the exhaust, my 2.0 has Studs. Studs are better!

ImageDSC_2097 by adrianvh
Remove the thermostat and housing, this wont be re-used

Remove the coolant by-pass and EGR valves on the back of the block as this wont fit the RWD engine bay.
ImageDSC_2098 by adrianvh

Remove the Balance shaft assembly bolts (4) and oil fed tube. Carefully insert the Balance shaft delete bolt/stopper into the bolt hole and oil feed hole as shown
Remove the 2.5L oil pick up tube, this wont be re-used.
ImageDSC_2067 by adrianvh
ImageDSC_2101 by adrianvh
ImageDSC_2102 by adrianvh

Remove the oil filter and filter mount. This wont be re-used.

Clean the block surface where the oil pan attaches with a blade and wax and grease remover. You will want this and the front timing cover step spotless. Be very thorough !
Ditto for the oil filter mount.

Now its time to remove the 2.0. I didn't have a hoist so had to do the top out method.
The very first thing you want to do is take lots of pics, of every connection and side/angle of the engine. You cant have to many and its a good guide when putting it all back.
Especially take pics of the plumbing around the throttle body and intake manifold.
Follow the Cosworth Supercharger instruction up to step #72.(belt removal)

Unbolt the gearbox from the engine block and store in the plastic zip-lock lunch bags with a label. Unbolt the clutch slave and line, including the one under the intake manifold.
Lift cover off the fuse box and remove the plug and bolt lead as shown.
ImageDSC_2116 by adrianvh

Remove the ECU wiring harnesses. The wiring harness you unclipped from the fuse box and ECU can be moved over the engine once a few clips are undone.

Unbolt the power steering pump and gently position over the ECU and hold in place with zip ties. Remove the air-con compressor and position up near the fuse box with out stressing the flexible lines, cable tie in place.

Remove the coolant return hose above the exhaust manifold and then remove the exhaust manifold and oxy sensor plugs.
ImageDSC_2072 by adrianvh

Take the engine lift hanger off your new 2.5L block and bolt it to the rear bolt of the coolant return line above the exhaust manifold. This gives you two opposed lifting points.
Then slowly lift the engine out, making sure all lines are clear and nothing is getting snagged.
ImageDSC_2083 by adrianvh
I found it easier to jack the gear box up so its angled upwards, this made it easier for the drive shaft to come loose.

Double check everything is clear as you slowly raise the old engine out.

Position it on a firm solid surface, I used timber blocks to keep it level.

You will want to remove and transfer the following to your new 2.5L block

Alternator
Starter motor
Oil filter mount and new filter
Coolant lines and PCV lines
Idler pulley
Belt tensioner pulley
Thermostat and housing
Exhaust manifold studs. My 2.5 had one stud and it was to long to clear the extractors.
ImageDSC_2114 by adrianvh

Oil pan and oil pick up tube, make sure you get the O-ring. Clean the pan and silicon in place. Tighten bolts to spec.
Rocker cover, the 2.5L cover has slight differences so use the 2.0 cover.
Upper intake manifold (black plastic) and lower intake manifold (aluminium).
If you position the lower intake manifold on the new 2.5L block and feel the inside where they meet you will feel the slight difference in sizes. Fixing this is optional but I did for peace of mind.
Get the metal gasket that came off the 2.0 block and place it on the lower manifold engine side. There is a slight difference in sizes, this can be marked with a sharpie marker. Then use a file or dremmel tool with an aluminium hgrinder to grind down to this mark. It wont be perfect as there is still a small step but its an improvement and helps with smooth airflow. See below.
ImageDSC_2089 by adrianvh
ImageDSC_2090 by adrianvh
ImageDSC_2094 by adrianvh

Remove the 2.0 engine mounts and set aside, these will be reused on the 2.5L
Next is the flywheel but before you do, you will need to remove the 2.0 Crank pulley. Brace the flywheel with a long bar or flywheel lock as shown below.
ImageDSC_2111 by adrianvh

Put your breaker bar onto the crank bolt and loosen it. Its on damn tight but will budge with body weight.

Once that's off, clean up any surface rust with 400 wet and dry, degrease it and set aside. Now remove the flywheel from the 2.0 and bolt it to the 2.5L. Once bolted to the 2.5, follow the below steps exactly.
Rotate engine clockwise until cam slots are lined up and insert the cam tool at the rear of the Cams
ImageDSC_2118 by adrianvh

Lock the flywheel with a bar or flywheel lock, then remove the cam timing tool. This is where a flywheel lock wins the day.

Remove the crank pulley and crank bolt from the 2.5L and discard, they wont be re-used. Make damn sure you remove the old diamond washer, its hard to get out of it hiddy hole.
Install the 2.0 crankshaft pulley and ARP crank bolt, then hand tighten. Then remove the flywheel lock or bar.
Install the shorter purple timing peg into hole on the lower right side of engine block
Rotate engine clockwise until engine comes into contact with timing peg. My 2.5L block rotated about 3-4 degrees so it wont be much.
Loosen the ARP crank pulley bolt
Rotate the pulley until small hole lines up with threaded hole in timing cover and screw in an M6 bolt.
Re-install the cam-timing bar in the slots on back of cams.
With the crank against timing purple peg, the M6 bolt installed through the crank pulley, and the timing bar in the cams, torque the crank bolt to 25ft/lbs
Remove the peg from block, m6 bolt from pulley, and timing bar from cams.
Rotate crankshaft 1.5 revolutions, install timing peg into block, and turn crank shaft .5 a revolution until crank contacts the purple peg. Then install m6 bolt through pulley and cam timing bar.
If you can not install the m6 bolt or cam timing bar then your timing is out of phase
Now remove the purple peg, m6 bolt and timing bar from the cams.
Lock the flywheel without rotating the engine with the flywheel lock or bar.
Tighten the ARP crank bolt in small stages, with 10-15 minutes between successive tightening. So from 25ft/lbs tighten to 50ft/lbs then wait 10 min. Do this in steps to 140 ft/lbs .
You will need assistance in holding the block while you do this.

Next clean internally the upper and lower manifolds and install the lower manifold only at this stage.
Use the 2.5L injectors but use the 2.0 fuel rail. Use the 2.0 spark plugs and ignitors.
Install the 2.0 coolant by-pass and EGR valves onto the 2.5L block.
Install the 2.0 Crank angle sensor onto the 2.5L. This is a sensor bolted to the timing cover down low right next to the crank pulley.

Tighten flywheel bolts to spec and install the clutch with a clutch alignment tool. Make sure you grease the input shaft socket.

You should now be able to transfer the wiring harness from the 2.0 to the 2.5L block
Transfer both engine lift hangers to the new 2.5 block and get it aligned for installation. You will want the block angled down at the rear at about 15 degrees.
Jack the gear box up until its roughly 15 degrees from vertical.
Now slowly lower the 2.5 block into the engine bay. Make sure you clear power steering lines and air con lines.

You will notice the rear is close, I had to bend some cowling brackets to get it to clear.
ImageDSC_2112 by adrianvh
Its a tight fit to get it past the front cross member but with 2 guys, some long bars and gentle manoeuvring you will get it in place.
The hardest part was aligning the input shaft. It wasn't to hard to get the gearbox lined up with a 15-20mm gap. This allows you to crawl under the car and rotate the flywheel a little through the gap.
Again with a bit of wiggling it will pop in.
do up 3 or 4 gearbox/engine bolts firm, but not tight.
Now install the engine mounts and tighten to spec.
Lower the jack holding the gear box and slowly lower into position on the engine blocks, tighten nuts to spec.
Install the remainder gearbox/engine bolts and tighten to spec. Make sure you get them all.
Now install the exhaust manifold and tighten.
Position the intake manifold and guide the PCV hose underneath into position on the modified PCV cover fitting. This can be tricky as your putting it on in-between the gap of the upper and lower intake manifolds. This is where the coolant hose lube is great. This stuff makes re-installing the coolant and air hoses a breeze.
Now look back over your pictures and re-attach all the hoses and lines. Double check it all.

Bolt on the air con compressor and power steering pump.
Re-install the radiator drain plug.

Re-attach the clutch, dont forget the clip under the intake manifold. Re connect all your plugs and fittings to starter motor.
Re-connect radiator lines and slowly fill with new coolant from the radiator cap. Mine took 6-7 litres to fill.
While this is settling, double check all bolts and nuts.
Fill with new oil. My block was dry as a bone and required 5.9 liters
You will want to reuse the 2.0 oil dipstick due to the shallower pan of the 2.0 oil pan.
Recheck your fuel lines and vacuum lines. Click all hose clamps and holders into place.
Re attach the ECU connectors and fuse box connectors.
Install ECU cover and Air cleaner assembly. Re install battery box.
Check the car for oil or coolant leaks.
Re-attach the strut brace, cowling plate, top cowling, wipers and fittings
Install battery and connect the terminals.
ImageDSC_2128 by adrianvh
Follow the manufacturers instructions to re-program your ECU.
Start the motor and bask in the glory of a job well done.

User avatar
Regie
Speed Racer
Posts: 4259
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 3:02 pm
Vehicle: NC - V8
Location: Sydney

Re: NC 2.5L engine swap (Aus Spec)

Postby Regie » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:51 pm

great writeup!

What happened to the original 2.0L? was it boosted?
MY07 NC, Mazdaspeed Body, Ohlins, Full GWR Exhaust, 17x9 RPF1's, 4.1FGR and lots lots more

Adrianvh
Driver
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:27 pm

Re: NC 2.5L engine swap (Aus Spec)

Postby Adrianvh » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:11 pm

Not boosted no, it started getting the munchies and liked the flavour if big end bearings. It had large flakes all through the system and ground into the cams. Realistically not worth rebuilding.

User avatar
oztrackdays
Fast Driver
Posts: 379
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:48 pm
Vehicle: NB8B

Good Write Up.

Postby oztrackdays » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:43 pm

Can't get professional DOCO as detailed most of the time.

How many Killawasps have you unleashed with this swap. Or you concentrating on torques.
M O N D A ... MX5 Powered by K24 Honda Power BUILD THREAD -> http://mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=63786

Adrianvh
Driver
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:27 pm

Re: NC 2.5L engine swap (Aus Spec)

Postby Adrianvh » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:04 pm

I want it really fast around corners and short courses. Still perfecting the tune with Joe but the results are sensational considering time & money spent.
It's added some complications though, need rolled guards and 17x9 rims now.

Adrianvh
Driver
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:27 pm

Re: NC 2.5L engine swap (Aus Spec)

Postby Adrianvh » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:06 pm

A little follow up to this, I'll be pulling the lower intake manifold off this weekend and removing the manifold to head gasket. This was the step above that tells you to dremel or file the aluminum manifold to match as much as the gasket will allow.
Further research has shown this area benefits from perfect port matching which the stock gasket prohibits. I'll then O-ring the block side to create a perfect seal.
More pics of this process to come.

User avatar
JBT
Speed Racer
Posts: 7946
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 11:00 am
Vehicle: NC
Location: Brisbane

Re: NC 2.5L engine swap (Aus Spec)

Postby JBT » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:29 pm

Excellent write up Adrianvh. :)
Image

Adrianvh
Driver
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:27 pm

Re: NC 2.5L engine swap (Aus Spec)

Postby Adrianvh » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:45 pm

Yeah thanks!

Adrianvh
Driver
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:27 pm

Re: NC 2.5L engine swap (Aus Spec)

Postby Adrianvh » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:16 pm

ImageDSC_2120 by adrianvh


This was in the bottom of my 2.0 engine.

User avatar
JBT
Speed Racer
Posts: 7946
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 11:00 am
Vehicle: NC
Location: Brisbane

Re: NC 2.5L engine swap (Aus Spec)

Postby JBT » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:06 pm

:shock:
Image

User avatar
Regie
Speed Racer
Posts: 4259
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 3:02 pm
Vehicle: NC - V8
Location: Sydney

Re: NC 2.5L engine swap (Aus Spec)

Postby Regie » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:20 pm

yep that will do it
MY07 NC, Mazdaspeed Body, Ohlins, Full GWR Exhaust, 17x9 RPF1's, 4.1FGR and lots lots more

User avatar
timk
Racing Driver
Posts: 1928
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:16 pm
Vehicle: NC

Re: NC 2.5L engine swap (Aus Spec)

Postby timk » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:32 pm

Woah, I might have to get me an NC now! :P

Jalb_k
Learner Driver
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:52 pm
Vehicle: NC

Re: NC 2.5L engine swap (Aus Spec)

Postby Jalb_k » Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:30 am

And now I'm sitting back and basking in the glow of a job well done :D Thanks for the excellent instructions and the loan of the tools (will be in the mail today) Adrian! It wasn't all smooth sailing but nothing a little sit back and think couldn't overcome. Mine is an auto so removal of the torque converter from the flywheel was the first (more so the putting it back) plus the trial and error of what hoses and when and the exhaust manifold studs on my new block were easily 10mm longer so I had to lift the motor again to get clearance to get the headers back on. I finished at 1:30am on the Monday morning, really should have been a long weekend job :?

Having said that, the results are worth the bark off the knuckles! As I said, I have an auto and it never broke traction off the line unless it was wet, I can't stamp on it off the lights anymore 'cos it will leave 11's :D the addition of extra power plus solid polyurethane diff bushes and motor mounts put the power down so much better than before, I reckon I'm going to need some wider rubber at the back. I'm going to get her on the dyno soon and tweak the tune with Mike from MotoEast. The best we got from the old 2.0 with CAI and full RoadsterSport exhaust tuned was ~95rwkw. GoodWin Racing reckon you can get up to 200rwhp with a NA 2.5, so the conversion says I should be good for ~147rwkw. If I'm making 110-120 I'll be happy, power to weight of under 1:10, yeah, that'll do. 8)

Adrianvh
Driver
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:27 pm

Re: NC 2.5L engine swap (Aus Spec)

Postby Adrianvh » Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:44 pm

Great to hear mate. I'm constantly amazed and blown away by what the engine swap has done to my little Miata. It's truly a giant killer now.

User avatar
Charlie Brown
Speed Racer
Posts: 2623
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2003 11:00 am
Vehicle: NC
Location: Sydney, Just out of Dragon Territory over the bridge in the "Shire"
Contact:

Re: NC 2.5L engine swap (Aus Spec)

Postby Charlie Brown » Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:57 pm

Jalb_k wrote:....GoodWin Racing reckon you can get up to 200rwhp with a NA 2.5, so the conversion says I should be good for ~147rwkw. If I'm making 110-120 I'll be happy, power to weight of under 1:10, yeah, that'll do. 8)


Mines 127rwkW and 250Nm. ie 170rwHp with GWR headers and the NC 2.0 head. As a reference on the same hub dyno my 2.0 engine produced 113rwkW and around 190Nm, so the big jump is in torque.

The only way you’ll get to 200Hp is to fit cams. If yours is a NC1 and you’re using the 2.0 head then you’ll need to change the valves as the valve heads have a habit of snapping off when cams are fitted. NC2 valves were stronger with a different profile at the valve neck.

Just to let people who are interested know, fuel consumption with the 2.5 and a 4.1 diff is close to 11 litres/100klms around town and 8.6 litres/100klms in the country. It consumes around 1.5ltrs more than the 2.0 litre with a 3.7 diff.
Image

Wakefield 1:09.13 Eastern Creek GP 1:50.198 Ext 2:17.538 Sth 1:02.9003
Phillip Is 1:58.50 Winton Short 1:10.7 Lakeside 1:05.7711 MDTC 45.20


Return to “NC [2006 +]”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests