COPs, Oil Coolers, Coolant re-route etc..

[Paulus]

A full breakdown of these parts and when they need to be fitted.

Hi,

- COPs
Typically past 14psi, OEM coils have spark breakdown at higher boost levels, the car literally misfires during boost.
- Coolant reroute
This allows the car to be tuned for more power (happy to explain why) and helps cool cars dríven hard for prolonged periods
- Oil cooler
On cars dríven hard enough for prolonged periods this prevents premature wear due to oil no longer protecting as well as it should, outside of its rated heat range
- thick core rad (i am running an auto rad however)
Again, a 500whp drag mx5 could probably do without a radiator as it only has to be dríven for 9 seconds, its about how hard and how prolonged (and duty cycle) of power use.
- uprated clutch (running 1.8 stock)
This comes down to torque, many turbo setups on stock clutches literally slip and the car freerevs to redline without accelerating, this typically happens at 8-10psi, but depends on total torque put down.

I am also running 315cc injectors. So far, never more than 90% duty (@ redline).

In addition, these injectors and duty cycle tells us you are unlikely to be making a lot more than 160whp, which is 100whp less than some stock engined turbo guys are making, this is also a significant difference in the cooling and clutch mods required.


Paul

I hope this answers a bunch of questions.

Morning Dann - i see we woke up thinking about the same things?

Agree with everything - one point of dispute/fact finding. How can I be 11.2 AFR @ 187KPA with 90% duty. Maybe the injectors have been modded?? See log

[Paulus]

wrt COPs. Tune until misfire, then back off 1/2 PSI?

[Magpie]

Dann is correct in saying that the build should be discussed with a view of final use, expectations and most importantly BUDGET.

Your build appears suitable for everyday use, however for a road registered car that spends more time on the track you need to ensure that everything is built to handle high revs, hard braking and high G cornering, way in excess of what you will do on the streets.

My build is non forced induction yet has COPS, oil cooler, coolant re-route and whilst it is road registered it spends more time on the track than on the road. Again, when you push engines to their design limits things wrong decisions have impacts, the key is to find them early like in my case. Also, I'm running 725 ID injectors.

Dann is your man if you want turbo advice.

Saying QR is not a flat to the floor track in a MX5 is wrong as if your foot in not flat to the floor it should be on the brake! Yes you need to control the throttle in corners but that is the same for any track. What lap times are you getting around QR?

[ManiacLachy]

My build is non forced induction yet has COPS, oil cooler, coolant re-route and whilst it is road registered it spends more time on the track than on the road.

Correction: your car spends more time at Automotive Plus than anywhere else

[NitroDann]

At 90% duty cycle, 11.2 AFR and 4x 315cc injectors it not physically possible to support more than about 190hp at the ENGINE.

Dann

[Paulus]

At 90% duty cycle, 11.2 AFR and 4x 315cc injectors it not physically possible to support more than about 190hp at the ENGINE.

Dann

I get it, but it's happening. injectors must be modded or something odd with fuel pressure. take it offline. i'll keep monitoring duty

Dann is correct in saying that the build should be discussed with a view of final use, expectations and most importantly BUDGET.

Your build appears suitable for everyday use, however for a road registered car that spends more time on the track you need to ensure that everything is built to handle high revs, hard braking and high G cornering, way in excess of what you will do on the streets.

My build is non forced induction yet has COPS, oil cooler, coolant re-route and whilst it is road registered it spends more time on the track than on the road. Again, when you push engines to their design limits things wrong decisions have impacts, the key is to find them early like in my case. Also, I'm running 725 ID injectors.

Dann is your man if you want turbo advice.

Saying QR is not a flat to the floor track in a MX5 is wrong as if your foot in not flat to the floor it should be on the brake! Yes you need to control the throttle in corners but that is the same for any track. What lap times are you getting around QR?

Interesting- why did you go with such upgrades? I'm honestly shocked at the limits of OEM, props to mazda.

No laptimes sorry, i'm not that serious. i'll work on my heel toe

[Magpie]

Getting 182 RWHP out of a 1.8 BP engine naturally aspirated (non E85) and streetable is not bad! They are capable of more but the life will be in hours not KM's. Dann has more knowledge on how much a stock OEM BP can be pushed.

If you sonic test the BP block anf find the right one you can go to 85.5mm Pistons. However be prepared to do a lot of sonic testing to find the right one.

But my build does come at the cost of if things go wrong it will not be cheap to fix. Plus it needs to be monitored and maintained.

Hope to see you at QR sometime in 2015.

[NitroDann]

Something is up with your injectors or your hp is lower than you think it is.

Magpie has a lot of upgrades because at his full throttle and full braking duty cycle he needs them for reliability.

[davekmoore]

NitroDann is wise. It's easiest just to give in early and modify your opinions to suit his facts, because that's what they are.

[speed]

Oops, cut and paste stuffed up

[speed]

My reasoning for changing over to cops is for reliability, cost and neatness.
The reroute is to give me piece of mind that the engine can cool as the engineers had designed it to and will also clean up the front of the engine.
Is a small price to pay for reassurance.
I'm also a very conservative driver and I've never blown diffs, tail shafts or drive shafts in any of the cars I've owned. Saying that when I was a younger bloke I managed to cook an engine due to poor cooling and can confirm that the story is no where near as exciting as a rod going through the block but the repair work is almost same same.


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[Paulus]

Thanks for everyone's feedback. Appreciated it.

My reasoning for changing over to cops is for reliability, cost and neatness.
The reroute is to give me piece of mind that the engine can cool as the engineers had designed it to and will also clean up the front of the engine.
Is a small price to pay for reassurance.
I'm also a very conservative driver and I've never blown diffs, tail shafts or drive shafts in any of the cars I've owned. Saying that when I was a younger bloke I managed to cook an engine due to poor cooling and can confirm that the story is no where near as exciting as a rod going through the block but the repair work is almost same same.

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My bay needs a clean, so will consider COPS for aesthetics!

I have since realised coolant reroute is a really good idea. Is http://stores.ebay.com.au/Automotive-Pl ... kw=coolant so simply it's not good?

I'll do some logs @ the next trackday (valentines day!) and post dyno result to settle the injector discussion.

[rascal]

I have since realised coolant reroute is a really good idea. Is http://stores.ebay.com.au/Automotive-Pl ... kw=coolant so simply it's not good?

You can even make it simpler again, by just swapping the factory thermo housings from front to rear, exchanging the bolt in the back of the head with the temp sensor as you do it. A short length of heater hose to reach the front of the motor, and a length of hose to reach from back of motor to the radiator outlet and you're done. No wiring changes necessary. Almost all with factory parts.

I actually used a short length of offcut alloy pipe to connect head to radiator (~$3 at alloy places) and spent 10mins in supercheap to find matching hoses.
Total outlay for whole kit < $50 and a lazy afternoons work. Been working perfectly in the half dozen track days since, including a 43deg day at sandown.

[Paulus]

You can even make it simpler again, by just swapping the factory thermo housings from front to rear, exchanging the bolt in the back of the head with the temp sensor as you do it. A short length of heater hose to reach the front of the motor, and a length of hose to reach from back of motor to the radiator outlet and you're done. No wiring changes necessary. Almost all with factory parts.

I actually used a short length of offcut alloy pipe to connect head to radiator (~$3 at alloy places) and spent 10mins in supercheap to find matching hoses.
Total outlay for whole kit < $50 and a lazy afternoons work. Been working perfectly in the half dozen track days since, including a 43deg day at sandown.

thanks mate!

[sailaholic]

A dyno result is only helpful if it's accurate. What Dann is saying is either your injectors aren't flowing the rated 310 cc OR you aren't making that much power. A or b no option C.


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