Exocet Trailer

Discussion regarding putting a non MX-5 engine in your MX-5, Exocet, Locost, FM Westfield and other MX-5 based kit cars.

Moderators: timk, Stu, zombie, -alex

User avatar
gslender
Speed Racer
Posts: 2330
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:49 pm
Vehicle: NA6
Location: Brisbane, QLD

Re: Exocet Trailer

Postby gslender » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:53 am

Exocet Australia wrote:It's a bit hard to get out to the workshop to get some photos, so I'll explain my theory behind my pivot points.
On a Hayman Reece towbar, you can pull the towball and tongue out by pulling the pin and sliding it out. You know the part I mean?

That pin, at 12mm round, is supposed to hold 35tonne before breaking. The RHS that slides in and out that the tongue is welded to, has a wall thickness of 5mm. So at 2 points along the length of the pin, a total surface area of 10mm is pushing on that pin, and 10mm pulling, creating shear points and it still doesn't break.

My pivot points are held in by 2 x 7/8 high tensile bolts, with a total surface area of 140mm. 70mm of which is pushing against the bolt, the other 70mm pulling.

Does that make sense? That's my engineering thought process.

Sounds fancy to my half delirious brain.


It all seems well thought through, so a quick follow up with the needed pics would probably be all that is needed.

I still can't picture it, but probably because I don't follow what is stopping both wheels from sagging and splaying outwards - on a conventional trailer the axle beam starts to bend, or snap clean off, or the hubs shear off the axle itself... in your design, where is that stress converted to? The side box part of the trailer side? Is that strong enough?

G
MX5 91 NA6 LE completely stock and loving it!
MX5 92 NA8/ITBs Silver "aka Track Beeotch"

Exocet Australia
Fast Driver
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:10 pm
Vehicle: ND - 2
Location: Newcastle, NSW
Contact:

Re: Exocet Trailer

Postby Exocet Australia » Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:13 am

So the infection in my leg is worse than I thought and has put me in hospital. It'll be a few days yet before I can get some photos. On the plus side......drugs. Awesome.

User avatar
NitroDann
Forum sponsor
Posts: 10280
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:10 pm
Vehicle: NA6
Location: Newcastle NSW
Contact:

Re: Exocet Trailer

Postby NitroDann » Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:59 am

Dam... Hope you get out and get back to work soon Matt :)

Dann
http://www.NitroDann.com

speed wrote:If I was to do it again, I wouldn't even consider the supercharger.

Exocet Australia
Fast Driver
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:10 pm
Vehicle: ND - 2
Location: Newcastle, NSW
Contact:

Re: Exocet Trailer

Postby Exocet Australia » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:30 am

So do I but things are still progressing without me. The frog arm template that I made is with lasertek and I'm having a Coreflute template made of my template. (Apparently I was a bit delirious when I was cutting it the other day and it's pretty rough) so I'll get that and give it to you to trial fit on NA and NO. If all good I'll proceed and have them cut from mild steel and start work on some door bars and roll bars/roll cages.

User avatar
Boyracer
MX-5 Encyclopedia
Posts: 2568
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 11:00 am
Vehicle: NC
Location: Silverdale.NSW
Contact:

Re: Exocet Trailer

Postby Boyracer » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:12 pm

At least you get to have a rest for a few days Matt...
NC Roadie, NC Racey, ND Racey….and a 30AE

Plus several others in the bone yard...

Exocet Australia
Fast Driver
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:10 pm
Vehicle: ND - 2
Location: Newcastle, NSW
Contact:

Re: Exocet Trailer

Postby Exocet Australia » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:27 pm

Please kindly explain that to my wife Lou, thanks

Exocet Australia
Fast Driver
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:10 pm
Vehicle: ND - 2
Location: Newcastle, NSW
Contact:

Re: Exocet Trailer

Postby Exocet Australia » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:16 pm

Pushed a NB8A up onto the trailer this morning. Everything works as advertised. Just a few things to add, grind, sand, make schmicko and then weigh ridge ticket, then the testing. Once that's done she's all good for rego then production starts. Being sick set me back about 8 days I reckon.

For Anyone interested, the trailer will be carrying one of Chris' cars to Wakefield next month, so you can see it in action there

Exocet Australia
Fast Driver
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:10 pm
Vehicle: ND - 2
Location: Newcastle, NSW
Contact:

Re: Exocet Trailer

Postby Exocet Australia » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:01 pm

Trailer in action on the Facebook page: www.facebook.com/exocetaustralia

Exocet Australia
Fast Driver
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:10 pm
Vehicle: ND - 2
Location: Newcastle, NSW
Contact:

Re: Exocet Trailer

Postby Exocet Australia » Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:33 pm

Last Day of the Year Sale

Any trailer ordered by midnight 31st December 2013 will get a free tyre rack valued at $ 460.00.
And of course I still have a Sports frame left in the first shipment of frame components coming from Exomotive in the US. I'll knock $1000 off the total cost if someone places their deposit by midnight new years eve.

Major Credit Cards Accepted.

project.r.racing
Speed Racer
Posts: 3722
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:16 pm
Vehicle: Non MX-5
Location: Glasshouse Mountains, QLD

Re: Exocet Trailer

Postby project.r.racing » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:22 pm

Exocet Australia wrote:Trailer in action on the Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/exocetaustralia

I guess dont park to far forward like in the vid. Unless you want the cable to cut ya bumper in 2?

If the winch failed. How many people or weight would be required to pull/push down the leverage bar?

Exocet Australia
Fast Driver
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:10 pm
Vehicle: ND - 2
Location: Newcastle, NSW
Contact:

Re: Exocet Trailer

Postby Exocet Australia » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:31 pm

Bump stops fitted so you can't drive too far forward and cause damage to your bumper. the new design eliminates the cantilever arms and the winch runs underneath the trailer.

too many to pull it down if the cable snapped. you'd just jack the trailer up with your jack.

97 MXV
Racing Driver
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:51 am
Vehicle: NA8
Location: Brisbane Southside

Re: Exocet Trailer

Postby 97 MXV » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:20 am

The trailer looks very similar to the K1W1 Renegade here http://www.renegadetrailers.co.nz/.
Renegade declare a "Patent Pending" on their "ground loading technology" on their web site. Design needs fundamental difference in order to avoid infringement.

gslender wrote:I'm located in Brisbane, and so probably a little too far to come to inspect before purchasing, but totally Ok for me to buy and come and collect.
In saying that, I'd need more photos and explanation on how the pivot is structurally sound and the engineering on how it keeps the axle solid/square - it looks like it floats the axle in a box section but has no cross beam to the other axle. So what stops the hubs from splaying out under heavy loads?
G

I declare I am a registered professional engineer (mechanical) with trailer design experience (helped my brother Richard design his Loadsafe Trailers http://www.loadsafetrailers.com/)

Most car trailers are non engineered heavy designs which are tolerant to faults in design and workmanship. However when trailer weight is trimmed down to a minimum, 350kg in this case, the metal that is left may have to work that much harder. The trick is to move the metal to where it matters, particularly in respect of detail design to resist metal fatigue. Metal fatigue is the greatest challenge facing trailer designers wishing to dramatically reduce weight but maintain durability.

The proof of the pudding is how long the trailer lasts before it cracks and when/if it does so, how quickly the crack spreads before it is noticed and what are the consequences of the crack growing into ultimate failure. Proper "what if" or Failure Mode Effects Analysis during design captures faults before they fail so avoiding the finger pointing which could result from chasing light weight with fingers crossed.

The question about how the moment from wheel offset is dealt with is a good one. This offset moment is the most critical load from a fatigue point of view that a trailer experiences. It is normally dealt with by a small diameter solid axle clamped (not welded) to the trailer frame at its point of maximum bending moment and stress together with leaf spring suspension. Being unwelded where it matters, the traditional axle has proven itself quite durable over many years. When trailer designers depart from this design into cantilevered arm designs welded to something they usually introduce a welded joint at the point of highest bending moment and stress as well as torsion into the longitudinal members to which the cantilever arms attach. The lack of suspension serves to increase the magnitude of the fatigue loads, particularly those at the extreme end of the fatigue spectrum.

The trick is to lower the stress at the welded joint sufficiently for it to tolerate the fatigue and to provide stiff enough connections to be able to properly get the torsion into the longitudinal members in the first place. Establishing the right level of redundancy is not as easy as it seems. A detailed design review of the load paths and weld configurations used to handle this fatigue would be my recommendation in order to adequately answer the question asked.

Magpie
Speed Racer
Posts: 7468
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:49 pm
Vehicle: NA6
Location: Purga, QLD

Re: Exocet Trailer

Postby Magpie » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:16 am

A quick search shows that there is an approved patent for tilt trailer in NZ and it has international protection.

http://www.iponz.govt.nz/app/Extra/IP/Shared/Browse.aspx?sid=635260634855438240

97 MXV
Racing Driver
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:51 am
Vehicle: NA8
Location: Brisbane Southside

Re: Exocet Trailer

Postby 97 MXV » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:44 am

Thanks Magpie for the link to the patent.
Close examination of the patent specifications and the above photos show the Exocet and Renegade trailers use leaf spring suspension contrary to my observation in my previous post.
The similarities of this trailer design to that contained in the NZ patent documents in your link appears remarkable :shock:
But hey I missed the suspension, so could be missing something else since photos on this thread are all I have to go on.

Magpie
Speed Racer
Posts: 7468
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:49 pm
Vehicle: NA6
Location: Purga, QLD

Re: Exocet Trailer

Postby Magpie » Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:51 pm

97 MXV wrote:Thanks Magpie for the link to the patent.

I'm not engineer but contracts are my thing:) The NZ patent has international protection so the Exocet trailer (as you observed) needs to be significantly different, however the wire winch to the pull down bar is the exact same so there is a possibility of IP infringement.

However the patent would need to be enforced and considering the market size the risk is (in my opinion) minimal. Enforcement of IP rights is expensive.


Return to “Engine swaps, Exocet, Locost & MX-5 kit cars”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest